Firefly Forums
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
Re:Stronghold 3 a wish list (1 viewing) (1) Guest
Go to bottom Post Reply Favoured: 5
TOPIC: Re:Stronghold 3 a wish list
#6557
Fredrik Wilhelm Fagereng (User)
Knife
Posts: 22
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
On my first post I did not really say all I wanted in the new stronghold game so here it comes:
1) I want the old crenellated wall back in stronghold, I like having the merlons on one side of the wall, and this made it more realistic. But the merlons on stronghold 1 was useless, therefore I never built it, so on stronghold 3 it should be a big advantage to build a crenellated wall only on one side, so that the archers on the wall behind the wall with the crenellated wall could have a better shot at the enemy witch have taken the first wall. If you had a crenellated wall one both sides of the wall the enemy would have protection from the archers on the wall behind, making it a disadvantage to have the stronghold 2 wall.
2) I want the lean to buildings back, but this time you can place a hovel on top of another building like a bakery or a fletchers workshop. Then you can have more places for other buildings, and it would be more realistic because people in the middle ages lived where they worked.
3) I want the peasants, animals and soldiers to take up space. But the problem here is that the peasants can make a line, to solve this problem stronghold 3 most have roads which the peasants can follow. You can also upgrade the roads making the peasants go faster. But with just one stockpile can this be a problem, so if buildings like bakeries and the inn had its own stockpile would the line disappear, because all the peasants will go to separate stockpiles.
4) I want fletchers to make arrows to, so that the archers have to be used more tactically, and the fire arrows have to use pitch. The archers have to use fire arrows to destroy siege towers and rams. If an archer should manage to destroy a catapult or a ballista he would have to kill the engineers or sett the catapult on fire.
5) The walls should not sink when they are taking damage. The gate of the gatehouse is the only thing that is damaged when a ram attacks it. Towers cant be placed next to each odder, so that the siege tower can be used by the enemy, but the towers can be placed next to a gatehouse.
6) Hoardings, machicolations, and loopholes should be available. The loopholes are a weak point of the castle wall, but an archer is immortal behind it. The hoardings can only be destroyed by siege towers, fire arrows and artillery, and the trebuchets can also throw pith which will increase the chance that the hoardings will burn if a fire arrow hits it.
7) Make gunpowder available in the game, but it does not mean that guns and cannons should be available. Trebuchets, mangonels and onagers should then be available with the ability to throw barrels with gunpowder. And the tunnelers can use gunpowder to make more devastating tunnels, and they normally have to use pitch (maybe flaming pigs to, that would have been fun)
8) It should be more resources like gunpowder, gong, charcal, sulfur. Gong can by thrown by siege weapons or used to make saltpetre, charcal is made out of wood ore food, sulfur can you make out of stone, when you got saltpetre, charcal and sulphur you have the ingredients for gunpowder, which you can produce in the gunpowder workshop. A new food source can be rats with cats not hunting birds can catch.
9) I want more armour and weapon types, and I want all the units to be able to use all the different armour types. Something that is weary important to me is chain mail and shields, and if the armour is to heavy the unit would have to get a smaller shield (the knights on stronghold 2 was ridicules, they used to big shields that it would in real life be unpractical)
Please no more assassins and Arabian horse archers, the europeans had their own horse archers even with crossbows, and the battle monks of that time where knights.
10) I want the game to be more centralized in the 14th century, the century of experimentation.
11) Deer should be a noble food type, and the hunters should act like they did on stronghold 1. The farms should be more realistic; the cow farms should be made like the ordinary stone walls, when you want more cows you can make a bigger wall and buy more cows (of course a wooden wall), the farms can be like those on age of empire where you can use the mill as a stockpile, the hops farms can have their own stockpile as well.
12) It should be able to build hospitals and oil smelter inside towers and gatehouses so that you can heal soldiers with doctors from the hospital, the hospital should also be made in a tent in the enemy's estate so the attacking force can make a tactical retreat. The oil smelter should be able to make boiling water and sand.

Hope that some of these ideas are useful, and my biggest wish is for the new stronghold game to be more realistic and historical accurate.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6563
Owain Glyndwr (User)
Pitch fork
Posts: 6
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Stronghold 3 a wish list 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
SH3 should be developed from SH2 rather than Stronghold Legends. It should try to get nearer to actual medieval warfare conditions. Although SHL contained some useful innovations it was basically a Disney World/Bram Stoker joke.

Castle Buildings

Keeps
All medieval keeps were entered at 1st floor level through a defended fore building and not at ground level. Please add fore buildings to the Keeps. With the largest keep with the six turrets could you please remove the loft conversion or Granny flat from the back, it looks really naff.

Some Keeps were round, others were rectangular (known as hall keeps) and some were polygonal in plan. Could we have those as well, please? Could we have shell keeps as well?

The present timber hall with a tower looks more like a wooden church. Could we have a manor house instead, something similar in construction to the apothecary's house?

Towers
Many castles had towers that were D shaped in plan. As well as the present square and round ones could we have those and possibly polygonal ones as well, please? Could we have towers of different heights as well. Towers in inner wards were always higher than those in the outer wards. As it is possible to have walls set diagonally why can't we have towers set at 45 degrees as well?

Walls
Could we have these at different heights as well? In SH2 there are two towers with hoarding. Could we have these on all towers and walls, costing more in wood supplies of course? There was a stone version of hoarding machicolations a stone gallery corbelled out from the wall allowing defenders to drop missiles on the enemies below. Could we have these, costing more in stone supplies of course?

Gate towers
Please could we have a drawbridge option for all gates and over rivers and streams as well as moats. Could also have a dry ditch defence as well as a moat?
In the 13th century twin towered gate houses became very popular and are found in many castles. They consisted of two D shaped towers flanking a gate passage, the whole building was B shaped in plan. They often had a least two floors above the gate passage and contained many rooms, some quite grand. In the inner wards of concentric castles they almost became keeps. Please could we have these.

Barracks
Please could we have the SHL version without the dead space in front.

Other buildings

A soon as a bailey was built the first domestic building to go up was a feasting hall. There every body ate and almost everybody slept apart from the Lord and his family.
What about adding a new building: Feasting or Banqueting hall to earn more honour points than feasts in the keep or manor house.

Bedchamber
Private rooms for a castle's Lord were contained in a Solar. This would include his bed chamber. I suggest you rename the bedchamber as a solar, make it a two storey building and get rid of the wooden balcony

Markets
The SHL version which can be set to automatically sell and buy is better.

Peasants' houses
The bronze and Iron age round house depicted in SH2 did not survive the Roman Empire. Medieval peasants' houses were rectangular, usually timber framed, like the market building but having only one storey and thatched. Could we have these please?

Hunters huts
It was the aristocracy rather than the peasants who live on the meat caught from hawking and hunting. The chicken farms of SHL seems a better choice.

Mills
Wind mills were used where no water was available, otherwise watermills were used. Could we have those as well?. Perhaps winning land adjacent to a flowing water course to site a watermill could be a game objective

Village towers
These are present in SHL and are handy for protecting villages, they should be included.

Military Units

Knights
SH2 knights are in full plate armour which would place them in the 15th to early 16th century. Please could you actually study armour of that period and adapt the figure accordingly? Get rid of the shields. The whole point of full plate armour was that a shield was not longer needed. If you need to display their coats of arms have them wear a tabard. A tabard was a loose T shaped garment with short sleeves worn like a poncho. The arms of the wearer are on the front, back and both shoulders. It was usually fastened down the sides, but it was sometimes worn loose. This covers the body very well, and the shoulders, but leaves the arms mostly exposed.

Swordsmen
These in their mixture of mail and plate armour could pass for 14th century knights. However the helms they wear belong to the 12th century. Perhaps they could be replaced by a visored basinet. Their shields are the right size and shape however they appear to be made of metal. All medieval shields were made of laminated wood. The only metal shields used where bucklers. These were small round shields less than 30cm in diameter with a raised central boss and used by archers and other infantry.

Pike men/Spearmen
Please get this right. A pike is a long spear. In the 14th century it was usually 3.6 metres long, by the end of the 15th century it had increased to 4.5 metres. It was used by trained infantry in formations and was very effective against cavalry. the front ranks of such formations tended to be better armoured that rear ranks. the pike was popular in Lowland Scotland where the formation was called a schiltron, and in Flanders, Germany and Switzerland.

SH2 pikemen are in fact armed with a halberds, a cross between an axe and spear on a long pole it was usually between 1.5 and 1.8 metres long. This weapon along other pole arms such as bills, glaives, guisarmes, Lochaber axes, Jedart staves, and poleaxes, all various forms including a hook, cutting edge and spike were very popular with infantry throughout Europe. Troops armed in such a way were called billmen or halberdiers. Again their armour varied from light to medium.

I suggest that the basic unit is an light armoured halberdier and that the wood turners produce halberds by default. The next figure up should be a light armoured pikeman carrying a 4 metre pike costing more. Pikemen movements will have to be changed to follow pike tactics.

Archers and Crossbowmen
HS2 gets it right, wooden crossbows did have a shorter range than longbows. Crossbowmen generally were also more heavily armoured than archers, but archers did wear helmets as well. However when it came to rates of fire and archer could loose of more arrows than a crossbowmen could shoot bolts. Could the game reflect that?

From the 14th century onward crossbowmen used steel crossbows which took longer to load but had a longer range. Could these be incorporated somehow?

Macemen
I can't see much point to these. Infantry only resorted to short arms after the polearm had been lost or broken. Perhaps they could be left out and the space reserved for heavily armed version of other infantry. If you insist on keeping macemen at least give them helmets

Peasants
I never use them. Scrap them.

Cavalry
In SH2 there is nothing between the heavily armoured knight on horse back and the light cavalry. In medieval times there were medium cavalry called sergeants in equipment similar to the SH2 swordsmen. Could we have those as well. Could we have them and the knights when on horseback armed with lances, as that was their primary weapon as cavalry. Could it be possible that they can mount, dismount and remount their horses? Could this be extended to light cavalry and horse archers as well?

Often knights having their horses killed under them led to themselves being wounded, knocked unconscious or at least winded by being thrown to the ground. This is not reflect in SH2 as cavalry the knights take no damaged whilst on horseback and only start receiving damage as they fight on as infantry. They should sustain some damage on loosing their horses.

Mercenaries

Light cavalry
See above. Please give a shield similar to the swordsmen's.

Berserkers
Please change these to Viking axmen. Give them a hauberk, (a long mail coat) and a conical helmet without out horns and forget the shoulder pads. Make the axes single bladed with a longer haft. They can then pass for Viking warriors, Saxon huscarles, Scottish highland warriors and Irish galloglasses.

Axe Throwers
I can't find any evidence of these existing anywhere during the medieval period. I suggest scrapping them. If you insist on keeping them get rid the horns on their helmets

Pictish warriors
Apart from them disappearing long before medieval times there is no evidence of them ever having coracles. Coracles were used in Wales up to the beginning of the 20th century to fish from rivers and the Irish had larger hide boats called curroughs. If you want to have water crossings I suggest a new building: Boat Shed/Ship yard which will produce boats/ships to ferry troops across bodies of water.

Amalgamate the present Pictish warrior with the outlaw to produce a new unit. Keep the Pictish dress but make the kilt more saffron coloured. Arm him with three darts (javelins) a metre in length and the round shield presently found on the light cavalry. Call him a tribal warrior and he can pass for Irish Kern and a Gascon bidower. Use these instead of the present outlaws in the outlaw camps.

There were javelin armed cavalry as well, in Spain, called Jinetes. They were half armoured and carried darts that looked like large arrows and heart shaped shield of wood and leather called an adarge. You might want to include these.

Horse Archers
These are great they were not only found in the near east but in the Balkans as well. The composite bows they used far outranged any other kind of bows

Thieves
I have never seen the point of these. Scrap them

Assassins
The historic religious sect known as the assassins was confined to the Near East and obliterated by the Mongols in 1275. SH2 assassins are nothing more than Arabian sounding Ninjas. Scrap them. If you want surprise attacks on castles try to include a night time in the game.

Two units could be added. Genoese crossbowmen were hired by other countries. Perhaps they could be included armed with steel crossbows and inflicting more damage.
Switzerland and Germany hired out pikemen to other nations. Perhaps they could be included here rather than in the barracks.

Monastery
I have found the warrior monks useful, but I never found any use for the ordinary monks. Perhaps this could be used to produce Knights of the main military orders:
Templars (red cross on a white background) As they where suppressed at the beginning of the 14th century they would be mainly in (chain) mail.
Hospitallers (white cross on a red background) in plate armour
Teutonic Knights (black cross on a white back ground) in plate armour
All with the option of being cavalry.

Siege engines
These are all okay, but use the trebuchet from SHL which can be assembled, disassembled and moved. Include the siege towers from SHL which can be manned by troops. Keep the original ballista from SH2 which fires automatically as archers and bowmen do when the enemy is in range. I know it can sometimes lead to casualties on you own side, but then "friendly Fire" has been part of warfare throughout the ages However, it was Roman armies who used ballistae as field artillery not medieval armies. Perhaps they could be like trebuchets requiring to be assembled on site?

Upgrading
I do not know if this is possible but at the cost of honour points, money and materials could it be possible to upgrade barrack produced troops: Archers, crossbowmen, spearmen/pikemen and halberdiers having better armour and being harder to kill? Swordsmen could upgrade to knights.

Gunpowder
Many think of gunpowder as coming after the medieval period, but in fact cannon and handguns were part of medieval warfare from the mid 14th century onwards. If they were made part of the game they would have to have a limited efficiency or they could take the game over and turn it into the warfare of the 16th and 17th centuries.

Large calibre cannon were prone to exploding and killing people standing nearby as happened to James II of Scotland. So what about having a large siege gun that can be only fired a number of times before blowing up and damaging troops within a certain radius? Field cannon could be about effective as ballistae. Hand gunners, perhaps available as mercenaries, should have the same rate of fire as wooden crossbows but a shorter range.

Shields and liveries
Could shields please obey the laws of Heraldry and consist of the colours: red, green, black, blue and purple and the metals Gold (yellow) and silver (white)? A colour can not be put on a colour and a metal on a metal. Coats of Arms could only be borne by the Lord alone.

Liveries: these were the uniforms worn by a lord's men. They consisted the above colours and metals plus orange and Murray (a reddish purple). The rules about metals and colours did not apply. Livery coats often consisted of two colours divided vertically, sometimes quarterly. Perhaps players could choose the colours and design of their own army and these designs appear on all shields, horse caparisons as well as coats.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Last Edit: 2010/06/07 19:39 By Owain Glyndwr.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6566
Hawkwood (User)
Axe
Posts: 34
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Denmark
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
silverblade wrote:
QUOTE:
If it is'nt already mentioned by someone: I wish, there will be different levels of difficulty for the campaign again, please! :)

Regards

I agree completely. Even though SH2 had a lot of innovations, it seems like they didn't include many of the good features of SH1 and SHC.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it before:
I would like to see increased support for smaller castles and manor houses:
Separate the drawbridge from the largest gatehouse. Add smaller gates only one square thick and two squares wide.
Enable gatehouses to function like stairs again.
Add rich looking buildings (like the apothecary's house) that can be placed next to stone walls.
Add stone walls with roofs.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Last Edit: 2010/05/31 18:32 By Hawkwood.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6575
Morgoth994 (User)
Scythe
Posts: 4
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
Peasents who dont have a job should wander around town but still return to the camp fire every 2-3minutes

when your castle is under attack peasents should flee the battle or try to defend themselves military access to all buildings should be possible

a new addition should be Culture which raises popularity work rate and soldier performence large monuments and impressive marches and victories raise culture
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6580
packie1984 (User)
Scythe
Posts: 3
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Birthdate: 1991-08-21
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
1)(Some) industries should use multiple resources. at the moment it's always one production path leads to one resource: like wheat farm>wheat>mill>flour>bakery>bread. I would like to see one resource being used for multiple processes and that some processes use multiple resources, like brewing beer should need both hops and wheat(or better still, malt from another step in the process (although this may lead to the process being to long)).
2) Get multiple granaries back. This bugged me when playing SH2, that you could only have one granary and that it could store all food. I loved it when I needed another granary in one of the older games, it gave a sense of accomplishment.
3) Has been suggested many times before: Hoardings
4) Hand to hand combat should be more then some weak punches... come on, your'e trying to disable an opponent here, not having a boxing match.
5)DETAILS! I love detailed interiors and exteriors
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6585
Thengar (User)
Spear
Posts: 18
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
To further the longbow discusiion a little:

...in the war against the Welsh, one of the men of arms was struck by an arrow shot at him by a Welshman. It went right through his thigh, high up, where it was protected inside and outside the leg by his iron cuises, and then through the skirt of his leather tunic; next it penetrated that part of the saddle which is called the alva or seat; and finally it lodged in his horse, driving so deep that it killed the animal. (Itinerarium Cambriae, (1191))

However:

"Even very heavy draw longbows have trouble penetrating well made, tough steel plate armour, which was used increasingly after 1350. Armour of the Medieval eras was not proof against arrows until the specialized armour of the Italian city state mercenary companies.[25] Archery was ineffective against plate armour in the Battle of Neville's Cross (1346), the siege of Bergerac (1345), and the Battle of Poitiers (1356); such armour became available to European knights of fairly modest means by the late 1300s, though never to all soldiers in any army. Strickland and Hardy suggest that "even at a range of 240 yards heavy war arrows shot from bows of poundages in the mid- to upper range possessed by the Mary Rose bows would have been capable of killing or severely wounding men equipped with armour of wrought iron. Higher-quality armour of steel would have given considerably greater protection, which accords well with the experience of Oxford's men against the elite French vanguard at Poitiers in 1356, and des Ursin's statement that the French knights of the first ranks at Agincourt, which included some of the most important (and thus best-equipped) nobles, remained comparatively unhurt by the English arrows."[26]

However, not all plate armour was well made or well looked after, and there were also weak points in the eye and air holes and joints where arrows could still penetrate. Full plate armour of the highest quality was also extremely expensive, only used by the most elite (and rich) soldiers, such as knights; the vast majority of soldiers were not armoured in plate from head-to-toe. Even for knights, in practice their horses tended to be less well protected than they were themselves. As late as 1415, the hail of arrows created by massed ranks of thousands of longbowmen helped to win the battle against plate armoured French knights at Agincourt. The French mounted charge against the English defensive position was ineffectual. The vast majority of the French knights actually advanced on foot, but exhausted by walking across wet muddy terrain in heavy armour, they were overwhelmed when the thousands of English longbowmen (using their swords and mauls) joined the hand-to-hand fighting in support of the English men-at-arms." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

So in summary early periods they were extremely effective
latter periods armour got better and made them less effective agaist the wealthy but they still good for killing poor troops.
wiki also mentions about the deformed bodies of the bowmen due to the training required to use them.

So if longbows are to be incorporated long training periods in a archery training building or such would be required.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6586
Thengar (User)
Spear
Posts: 18
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
It been mentioned about different levels of difficulty for the campaign.

Instead of that how about having an easy campaign with only 3 chapters, a medium level one with about 5 and a difficult one with about 7 so that you dont end up replaying the same missions just with extra troops on the battle field.

My view is that this would be more enjoyable and interesting.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6587
Thengar (User)
Spear
Posts: 18
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:What you Hope To See 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
Response to Fredrick wilhelm post:

Most of your points i really agree with and i love the idea of catapulting barrels of gunpowder or gong into a village and maybe spread desiese when they do.

I think having the fletchers make different types of arrows may get a bit too fiddly while actually playing but i agree that catapults and ballista should only be killed by arrows that are on fire so the archers need brasiers near them. And if the archers shoot the engineers on the catapult the catapult remains there but unmanned until new engineers get there.

Also along this point of thought the ability to just kill the engineers on any siege weapon then steal the weapon by sending your engineers to it so that it is now yours. This would be good to apply to all artillery and seige weapons including ones in towers.

A life force of the actual weapon and seperate ones for the engineers using it may need to be incorporated.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6588
Thengar (User)
Spear
Posts: 18
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:Stronghold 3 a wish list 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
Response to owain glyndwr:

All your points about buildings i liked and would be good additions to the game - still want the points i mentioned in my 1st post as well please (page 6)

As for troops i like mace men in SH2 they really effective for rushing a tower of archers, they run fast and pack a punch and dont die as quick as the spears and such like.

Peasents i find useful for running upto enemy walls to clear traps before better troops get there.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#6589
Thengar (User)
Spear
Posts: 18
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:Stronghold 3 a wish list 4 Years, 2 Months ago  
General note about armies:

I still want many of the things i said on page 6 but there have been many good points raised since then too.

The idea of having customisable troops is a really good one.

Maybe you could have each army set laid out ready to make and have 2 blank space in the section so you can click on them and set what weapons armour etc you want this troop to have and save it. This would mean you could add specialist troops to each player and creat a good variety. Should look good on screen and spice up play abit as you will come across new troop types from time to time that other players have made and will have to work out what is best way to kill them.

Also i liked the idea of making your own coat of arms.

More Lords should be available too. Make the game come with a set of predone lords like SH2 has 8 i think. And maybe a bit in the map editor to make new lords up and name them, arm them etc.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
Go to top Post Reply
Powered by FireBoard
© 2014 Firefly Studios - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy
Firefly RSS News Feed
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.
Firefly Studios @ YouTube Firefly Studios @ Twitter Firefly Studios @ Facebook