Firefly Forums
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
All units being equal... (1 viewing) (1) Guest
Go to bottom Post Reply Favoured: 0
TOPIC: All units being equal...
#12405
Insurance Salesman (User)
Axe
Posts: 53
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
I've always loved the Stronghold series, but something that has irked me since the first game is the fact that some units (in fact, a large percentage of them) are not very useful at all. The most obvious example would be spearmen - supposed to be a spammable, cheap unit, they are actually neither very spammable nor very cheap in comparison to their later counterparts and in addition are ludicrously terrible at fighting.

In fact, all "spam" units are pretty much useless after maybe the first couple minutes of the game (or are never useful when using no-rush). I know that the other, higher-tier unit types (such as macemen, pikemen and swordsmen) actually had a pretty good balance between them, but there's nothing quite as satisfying as sending massive waves of expendable fodder at your enemy - and in Stronghold, this tactic is pretty much worthless.

Some suggestions for fixing this problem:

- Make the spam units (especially the European ones) more powerful. When you still need to make weapons for every spearman or archer you create its annoying to have an army that can be easily killed by a couple swordsmen (and god help you if knights are involved).

- Make the powerful units more expensive. Though this is especially true for knights (who I think should be limited in number anyway and act like mini-lords) it's still annoying to have a swordsman who costs maybe 5 times as much as a spearman walk through a horde of them without breaking a sweat. The fact that it takes literally hundreds of arrows to kill them makes them absurdly powerful against archers as well, who can basically do nothing to an army of swordsmen approaching their walls.

These changes would allow the spam units to outnumber their counterparts more consistently, as well as allowing them to actually be capable of causing damage and therefore being worth their relatively lower cost.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12406
TodaysKiller (User)
Axe
Posts: 50
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male Location: Arkansas Birthdate: 1993-08-26
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Agreed, but not much powerful...maybe a few tweeks here and there.

Another thing I don't like from SH2, was it seemed like I always got attacked by Siege Towers with seriously 100 crossbow men on them...It was unstoppable...

This, I find to be very unrealistic and just a boring way to end a game, is by being stuck in your castle for the remainder of the time while you get no resources and they rack up all the resources to build a whole army of knights, etcthey should only allow it to where only 10 crossbowmen are allowed on top of it to shoot while advancing to the walls (In my opinion).

Another thing, (If I was playing a match without that "peace" "not attack" minutes)...Was they spammed those units in about a minute, which in that time I'm pretty much screwed...So, I hope if they do "boost" up the "rush" units, it won't be WAY op.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12407
warlord_designs (User)
Moderator
Posts: 655
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male warlord_designers@hotmail.com Location: Melbourne, Australia Birthdate: 1988-01-23
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Insurance Salesman wrote:
QUOTE:
I've always loved the Stronghold series, but something that has irked me since the first game is the fact that some units (in fact, a large percentage of them) are not very useful at all. The most obvious example would be spearmen - supposed to be a spammable, cheap unit, they are actually neither very spammable nor very cheap in comparison to their later counterparts and in addition are ludicrously terrible at fighting.

In fact, all "spam" units are pretty much useless after maybe the first couple minutes of the game (or are never useful when using no-rush). I know that the other, higher-tier unit types (such as macemen, pikemen and swordsmen) actually had a pretty good balance between them, but there's nothing quite as satisfying as sending massive waves of expendable fodder at your enemy - and in Stronghold, this tactic is pretty much worthless.

Some suggestions for fixing this problem:

- Make the spam units (especially the European ones) more powerful. When you still need to make weapons for every spearman or archer you create its annoying to have an army that can be easily killed by a couple swordsmen (and god help you if knights are involved).

- Make the powerful units more expensive. Though this is especially true for knights (who I think should be limited in number anyway and act like mini-lords) it's still annoying to have a swordsman who costs maybe 5 times as much as a spearman walk through a horde of them without breaking a sweat. The fact that it takes literally hundreds of arrows to kill them makes them absurdly powerful against archers as well, who can basically do nothing to an army of swordsmen approaching their walls.

These changes would allow the spam units to outnumber their counterparts more consistently, as well as allowing them to actually be capable of causing damage and therefore being worth their relatively lower cost.


Agreed. I can't remember ever using spearmen and I still play SH/SHC frequently...
Having said that every RTS has their share of unpopular units, i'd rather have spearmen as an option than not have them at all
At the end of the day it's simply a balance issue, I have a good feeling SH3 is going to be one of, if not the best game in the series. FF are taking their time and it should show.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12411
Shall0098 (User)
Axe
Posts: 33
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
It takes me 70 spearmen to storm an average castle.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Stronghold is my equivalent to Heaven.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12414
KillzownedDK (User)
Suit Up!
War Hammer
Posts: 234
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Shall: Stronghold 1 or Stronghold 2?
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12421
clemel (User)
Pitch fork
Posts: 5
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
I think none of teh basic units should be spamed

Make the spearmen better again units on horse back , so you can stopp knights ...
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12422
Sarranid (User)
Pole Arm
Posts: 81
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Agreed, the Spearmen are supposed to be anti-cavalry units, not tier I or spam soldiers.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12438
RudyFaasse (User)
Pointy Stick
Posts: 1
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Use them as targets for the enemy arrows, mix them with ur main strength forces and they will take less hits, and send them in front to clear the traps
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12440
CrackleJackal (User)
Throw down the gauntlet! ㋡
Flail
Posts: 325
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Gender: Male
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
I'd like to see it realistic2. and 24. Medieval military ranking system
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#12479
Srry4beatinU (User)
Pole Arm
Posts: 74
graphgraph
User Offline Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:All units being equal... 3 Years, 3 Months ago  
Everynight i dream of the perfect castle building game. I dream of stronghold, but like you say, its not perfect only because of the unit balance. I think they should make it close to how a real life war would be fought. Every unit has a pourpose. Knights would be the strongest, but they would be the most expensive. Honestly, i think they should be the only units it takes time to build. Spearmen would be a good counter to their horses, but not strong enough to take the acual knights out. You would need other stronger melee units/crossbow men to take them out.
Idk. Thats my take on it. Maybe not every unit is equal, but every unit has a counter, and that unit itself can be countered. Makes battles more decisive.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
If anything I say sounds stupid, it is because:
1: It is 5:00 in the morning
2: I am very stupid.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
Go to top Post Reply
Powered by FireBoard
© 2014 Firefly Studios - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy
Firefly RSS News Feed
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.
Firefly Studios @ YouTube Firefly Studios @ Twitter Firefly Studios @ Facebook